Curse

Barkam · Apr 18, 2005, 05:08 PM // 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sausaletus Rex

Fertile Season takes 5 seconds to cast. If your team can't interrupt someone casting a skill that lasts 5 seconds then you have little cause for winning in the first place.

This is only viable if Fertile Season has a very unique and noticable animation. Noone really has time to watch rangers when there are monks running around that can heal. If Fertile Season does have a distinguishable animation then, disregard this. :P

Ander Deathblade · Apr 18, 2005, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sausaletus Rex

Still, I'll put this forward. Fertile Season takes 5 seconds to cast. If your team can't interrupt someone casting a skill that lasts 5 seconds then you have little cause for winning in the first place.

sounds like a great solution for the problem.

rii · Apr 18, 2005, 08:42 PM // 20:42

you could be interrupted... or:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/content...tion-id840.php

would that work?

Vermilion Okeanos · Apr 18, 2005, 09:02 PM // 21:02

It is really hard to interrupting someone with ritual... I mean, who is stupid enough to do a ritual in the range of everyone.

When I use a ritual, I measure the area by radar... then I cast it behinde us so that the back line of the enemy team doesnt get it... No one ever see me doing a ritual during the start of the battle.

I think people took too lightly of ritual... there are 1 person out of 100 people that would actually directly assault the ritual the moment they see it, and those guy are the smart one... or rather, experienced one... The best counter would be having someone to use crtl most of the time to see if any ritual spirit are around right from the start of the battle.

To balance it... I think they need a skill that can be put there and ignore all ritual effect inside the area.

Ensign · Apr 19, 2005, 12:36 AM // 00:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sausaletus Rex

If your team can't interrupt someone casting a skill that lasts 5 seconds then you have little cause for winning in the first place.

That isn't really how Fertile Season affects games, though - in my experience with it the winner of the match isn't going to change much either way because of Fertile Season. The difference is just how long it's going to take to win said match. It turns what would normally be a five minute romp into a half hour affair - if they're running a heavy monk build, you can be there for an hour playing whack a mole.

Combine that with maps with ten minute time limits, and you have a nightmare.

While there might be solutions for competitive teams, Fertile Season is an absolute nightmare for the 95% of teams that are *not* competitive. Given a half decent group of Monks and poor focus fire, and you have a recipe for hour long standoffs just from casual usage. Add a dedicated build and you're basically looking at a universal god mode - people just fight until they get bored.

Or until the ten minute time limit expires.

It's a symmetrical skill and it's hard to really break in a straight one on one fight, so I wouldn't exactly call it unbalancing - but it's just a miserably boring skill. If there's one thing you can say about a skill more damaging than 'it's degeneratively overpowered', it's 'it makes the game not fun'. That's what Fertile Season does, and that's why it needs to be toned down.

Peace,
-CxE

tektonik · Apr 19, 2005, 02:52 AM // 02:52

Yes ensign that is the point. In the last match we played with our build at around the 30 min mark we went to our GL and sat. The other team sat outside for 5 min I assume making a plan cause they had already killed the outside NPC's. When they finally came in however they were making come process(killed one or two people and a few pets) but they just were high DPS and didn't have enough interupts.

I am sure a team could eventually beat this build especially a high ranking team but the ammount of time it takes is forever. Another point is the one person griefing a team that is just mean since you can't kickout or reinvite people after you are in tombs or arena.

nicosharp · Apr 19, 2005, 04:14 AM // 04:14

I did notice although fertile season was quite easy to take down by attacking, that their team could heal it.. and it also got the same benefit from the ritual.

Perhaps a reasonable nerf would be to make all rituals spirits third-party, meaning they can not be healed by anyone, but attacked by all. Also make all ritual spirits not effected by rituals. This would allow you to hex them attack them cast on them, but not heal or enchant or buff them with rituals. This is beneficial to you because, you can drop rituals when needed as a strategy.

I think posting a problem is great, but not without a solution. Most people that post here have known fertile season was overpowered since last BWE, it was just exploited better this time around, due to similiar posts.

Xellos · Apr 19, 2005, 04:59 AM // 04:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Excel

What? that makes the creatures even harder to kill with their high armor, the key is wards and blinding IMO

A monster with about 2k hp in the first place, doesn't gain a ratio benefit from 500 hp as much as a 400-500 hp player. When you pull, it's maybe 1-3 bladeaxes at most, so in theory, your whole team gets more benefit from hp/armour.

Think about it, 500x3 + 24x3 < 500x8 + 24x8. It also gives you more time to spam spells like blinding flash and such. And lastly, those guys are beasts in the first place, I don't think I've ever hit them for near 150 ever, most 120 with Final Thrust. They on the other hand, without Fertile Season, have hit my gladiator armoured warrior by 150-200. Pick up groups need Fertile Season for Underworld, because it gives less-then-competitive groups a chance to make up for their mistakes. Not everyone can always get the group they want.

But like Ensign said, this skill only drags things out, the only benefit it has is for people to recouperate(sp?) their losses or save someone in battle? I don't know, but I find this to be a legitimate tactic, though it's effectiveness needs to be toned down.

Ensign · Apr 19, 2005, 08:06 AM // 08:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xellos

I don't know, but I find this to be a legitimate tactic, though it's effectiveness needs to be toned down.

Well even the most broken of skills is going to have perfectly fair and reasonable uses. Unfortunately you can't balance around fair uses - you have to balance around the unfair ones, the abusive ones. I'm sure there are people using Fertile Season at low levels as a defensive countermeasure who won't quite understand the nerf, but it really don't matter what fair uses exist. The fact is that people are using this skill to make matches unreasonably long and frustrating, and that's problematic.

Hence all the cries for a nerf.

Peace,
-CxE

Excel · Apr 19, 2005, 08:34 AM // 08:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xellos

And lastly, those guys are beasts in the first place, I don't think I've ever hit them for near 150 ever, most 120 with Final Thrust.

120 with final thrust, I did ~76 damage to them with lightning orb and 16 in air magic...That would hint they had ~110AL against elemental damage

Xellos · Apr 19, 2005, 08:44 AM // 08:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Well even the most broken of skills is going to have perfectly fair and reasonable uses. Unfortunately you can't balance around fair uses - you have to balance around the unfair ones, the abusive ones. I'm sure there are people using Fertile Season at low levels as a defensive countermeasure who won't quite understand the nerf, but it really don't matter what fair uses exist. The fact is that people are using this skill to make matches unreasonably long and frustrating, and that's problematic.

Hence all the cries for a nerf.

Peace,
-CxE

Agreed, which is why I said it needs to be toned down in some way, either through the benefits, or just the spirit itself. But you do speak the truth

you have to balance things around unfair skills at this point.

Quote:

120 with final thrust, I did ~76 damage to them with lightning orb and 16 in air magic...That would hint they had ~110AL against elemental damage

Yeah, but I've seen those things take down elementalists in 2 hits. Warriors 3-4. So scary for pick-up groups

Auh · Apr 19, 2005, 02:00 PM // 14:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by tektonik

To anyone who saw it please tell me that it was not unfair.

I TOTALLY agree. I went into a GvG battle that we should've slaughtered the enemy team-- But once we get to their guild lord they use it to block us from killing it... Extending the time much longer than needed.
I think a good possible fix on this is lowering the Armor by about 8, the health by about 100, and lengthening it's recast time. and/or reducing the spirit's Hp and/or Armor.

Excel · Apr 19, 2005, 07:02 PM // 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xellos

Yeah, but I've seen those things take down elementalists in 2 hits. Warriors 3-4. So scary for pick-up groups

Yes I know THEY can do 350 damage hits do 60AL but I spoke of the damage I did to them with 16 in air magic

My point was if you did 120 with final thrust that was really good damage against those beasts... or did I misunderstand you that they did 120 to you

Kha · Apr 19, 2005, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Excel

Yes I know THEY can do 350 damage hits do 60AL but I spoke of the damage I did to them with 16 in air magic

My point was if you did 120 with final thrust that was really good damage against those beasts... or did I misunderstand you that they did 120 to you

120 is good with Final Thrust. Sounds like maybe Judge's Insight or some damage increase was used. I think I only got 90-100 with my final thrust, IF that. And they were doing 140 damage to me with Knight's Armor. Defy Pain helped though. I thought 140 was a lot. I can't even imagine how I would react to seeing one hit do 300+.

TheSecondSeven · Apr 19, 2005, 07:47 PM // 19:47

When team's who use the Fertile Season spirit start saying things like "What? You dont like spending time with us?" and "Good thing I planned nothing for the next 3 hours." It shows that some people are out there with evil intentions, and yet still cant even win. I hated that battle more than anything, and I hope there is a better way around in next time it happens to me.
Down with fertile season!

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicosharp

Perhaps a reasonable nerf would be to make all rituals spirits third-party, meaning they can not be healed by anyone, but attacked by all. Also make all ritual spirits not effected by rituals. This would allow you to hex them attack them cast on them, but not heal or enchant or buff them with rituals. This is beneficial to you because, you can drop rituals when needed as a strategy.

I think you have proposed quite the solution.

Excel · Apr 19, 2005, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kha

120 is good with Final Thrust. Sounds like maybe Judge's Insight or some damage increase was used. I think I only got 90-100 with my final thrust, IF that. And they were doing 140 damage to me with Knight's Armor. Defy Pain helped though. I thought 140 was a lot. I can't even imagine how I would react to seeing one hit do 300+.

Hehe yea it sure was a surprise

but they did that to me with my 60AL hydromancer armor

tektonik · Apr 21, 2005, 08:46 PM // 20:46

One week before the game goes live and still no forseeable changes that will keep this from griefing every part of PvP

sama · Apr 21, 2005, 10:49 PM // 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by tektonik

One week before the game goes live and still no forseeable changes that will keep this from griefing every part of PvP

heh that's why we're not gonna gvg much or pvp much until we farm up =)

Xellos · Apr 21, 2005, 11:24 PM // 23:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Excel

Yes I know THEY can do 350 damage hits do 60AL but I spoke of the damage I did to them with 16 in air magic

My point was if you did 120 with final thrust that was really good damage against those beasts... or did I misunderstand you that they did 120 to you

You interpreted my post right. I wasn't answering your question :P

The problem with air magic against bladeaxes is that their most likely resistant against it, since I've seen Obsidian Flame with Elemental Power Glyph do over 120 to them. I'm willing to bet their just made to smite Air elementalists, seeing as their the generally most useful out of the bunch (high damage single nukes, nice hex XD).

Think about it, alot of fissure/underworld stuff is undead too. This makes smiting alot better for PVE use. Their just making monsters based on what's not popular and giving them an advantage.

Or at least that's my theory.

Perishiko ReLLiK · Apr 21, 2005, 11:39 PM // 23:39

Even tho many people have responded to this fact, i figure ill add the same arguement. Fertile season is pointless, it does nothing but make the battle last longer... symbiosis is fine in my idea, because it can actually be used for stradegy if you're using a more monk based/enchantment based build, which will help your own team more then the enemy, but fertile season is just annoying. I tried to make a use for fertile season to where it would only help one team, but it's very hard to pull off... Such as the monk skill where you gain health if you're about to die, dont remember the name... but if you cast that on your teammates when the spirit dies, people are left with one health normaly... depending on the damage output of the team's, and that would help your own team more... But it's too annoying to try and normaly ends in failure anyhow...

(add 1 to the annoyed list for fertile season)